My older brother and I have been having an ongoing discussion in recent months about hell. The discussion centers on whether a loving God would actually send someone to hell. My brother maintains that God would not do that. It’s not like my brother is some kind of God-hating liberal with no understanding of Christianity. He is a somewhat conservative, Republican, Evangelical pastor who has come to this conclusion over several years.
I don’t spend a lot of time on You Tube but occasionally I run across something that is just too “good” to ignore. I’m quite sure that some will be offended by watching this, and that’s ok. There’s some real truth to what is being said. Some of it has to do with hell, and some of it just has to do with the mixed messages we as Christians send to those around us when we say things like, Jesus Loves You!
My general feeling is that we’ve made Christianity much more confusing than God ever intended (we’ve done the same thing to church). We’ve somehow separated God’s love from His forgiveness, I’ll write more about that soon. For now, take a look at the video and let me know what you think. Hell, Yes? or No?
January 29, 2008 at 9:12 am
Thanks for linking this.
Perhaps we are asking the wrong question . . . it could be that when Jesus comes in his glory and his kingdom of justice and righteousness is fully inaugurated that it will be “hell” for many self-righteous Christians who really don’t understand what his “justice” is going to do in this world. All things will be set right.
God is not only “love”, but God is also very interested in “justice”. If God is also “just” as well as “loving” then it may make hell much more necessary. I don’t know for sure, but I always hate to think about telling a woman who has been raped that her unrepentant attacker will be joining her in heaven.
Of course, in the end, who goes to hell and who goes to heaven isn’t left up to me . . . but maybe its not left up to God, either, as much as it is left up to individuals who chose their own actions and behaviors and make their own decisions.
January 29, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Jesus said that if you’ve hated its just like murder and that if you’ve lusted, you’ve committed adultery- ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God AND (all) are justified freely! I Tim. 4:10- Jesus is the Savior of ALL mankind. We’re not saved by His death but His life (Romans 5:10) All of Romans 5 is great in describing the fullness of what God did through Jesus. “If I be lifted up I will draw ALL people to me.” Was He lying?
If it is our decision, then who is truly God? Would God really leave eternal destiny to our feeble minds? Does it seem fair that the God who set up the whole system would punish those He supposedly loves forevr and ever for their ignorance or even arrogance for less than 100 years? Didn’t He tell people to forgive, not hold a grudge, love enemies and go the extra mile but He refuses to do so? Does grace superabound where sin abounds? Does love truly keep no record of wrongs?
I Cor. 15:22 “As in Adam all die so in Christ all will be made alive.” Same all!
15:28 All is subjected at the end Greek: hupertasso- voluntary subjection. THis passage also says that God will be all in all- all creation! This is after death is dead. How can all be reconciled to Him and death be dead if some are unreconciled and still dead? Was Adam’s sin of more effect than Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrected life? I don’t think so!
February 4, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Can’t we thank Dante for our current understanding of hell? It’s weird…I tend not to think much/ever about hell. I do tend to think that Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of the entire world (think Yom Kippur) and as such, has already covered the sins of the world thereby making us pure and blameless before God. I’m still trying to determine whether man’s decision to act on this knowledge has any bearing on the actual sacrifice.
j.
February 8, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Mark,
Your daughter Aimee pointed me to your blog and the youtube video. I am teaching her theology class at NNU. It is painfully funny and horrifying about “the gospel” as it is often “proclaimed.” You might be aware that Al Truesdale in his presidential address at WTS a couple of years ago with his message titled, “Can a Wesleyan Believe in Hell?” Of course he really challenged the popular folklore hell, of which the Bible is certianly vague about. Our conversation had centered on prevenient grace and world religions.
But I think the question you are asking goes to the heart of a Wesleyan theology of grace and hope that never gives up.
Thanks.
Brent
February 10, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Brent
I’m glad Aimee is being stretched in such graceful ways. Thanks for your contribution to her life.
February 10, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Brian
Thanks for your great comments. I’m thankful there’s nothing exclusive about the true gospel and that’s Christ’s forgiveness includes everyone. I’m not sure how the “church” has made it seem so complicated to spend eternity with our Father!
March 14, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Hey Mark,
Remember me? I came across your blog while checking out the new Premier site.
Anyways, Robert Morris gives, what I believe is a great explanation of hell when you look at what Jesus and the scriptures actually say: http://www.gatewaypeople.com/sermons/2006/20060812_HellFictionOrFact.html
I hope all is well.
Brandon
March 13, 2009 at 6:26 am
I think Jesus is quite clear about the reality of judgement and Hell – Mark 9:42-49 for example. God is not just the God of Love, but also the God of Justice. As for those sent there, if Hell is separation from God, then that is surely what they have chosen by rejecting him?
As a wise man once said, until you understand the grim reality of drowning, why reach for the life-jacket?